Category: Geeks r Us
Hey, I'm in need of a new laptop and I've decided to purchase a Macbook. I've played around a bit with Voiceover in Tiger though not extensively. I'm planning to duel boot it but I'd like to use the Mac primarily if possible. Have any of you had experience with the improvements to Voiceover in Leopard? Any comments/feedback would be greatly appreciated. Even if Voiceover isn't the way to go yet it would be nice to be able to use some Mac software and I like the design better than anything in the PC world, so this is the route I will be going regardless. Thanks in advance for your input!
I use it every day! Alex, the new Leopard voice, is excellent, and although the learning curve is somewhat steep, it's an easy transition. Boot Camp works like a charm, too. if you need to know anything else, feel free to send me, or any of us VO users a private message.
Jesse
Ahh! let the mac users be heard. I use the mac for mail, Internet, recording in quicktime pro on a limited scale, writing small documents in text edit, using Itunes for music along with my IPod and I have taught it as well. That was lots of fun. This site and document may help you get started. go to: http://icanworkthisthing.com/docs/mac_with_voiceover/Using%20MAC%20Applications%20with%20Voiceover.shtml
this site also runs a low traffic mailing list. If you have any questions please ask. Jesse's the bootcamp guy and I am hopefully going to start using it as well. I have an IMac intel machine and an Older Powerbook G4 both running leopard. Have a great day and welcome to the lighter side of computing.
Thank you both for the awesome feedback. Would you say you use a Mac or PC more often? Is there any way of using Microsoft Messenger on a Mac that will work with Voiceover? I've heard Adium isn't an option. This would be disappointing as most people I know don't use AIM, but for most other things I would use it for it looks like once I've learned it, Voiceover will do what I need it to.
There's ways to hack iChat to work with MSN contact lists, but it's tricky and I haven't tried it. If you want MSN, then Boot Camp your Mac, and run Windows Live for now, but an answer is coming, I'm sure.
Actually, Adium is an option. you need to make some settings changes. What happens is everything can be told to speak messages, contacts connecting and dixconnecting and things like that. the contacts view right now only shows the status to voiceover but pressing command-i will give you the name and contact info on each contact. the drag is you need to do that on each contact and close the information window wehn you have reead teh name and info. INcoming messages speak but you can't read them. I use adium and I also use IChat which works well for aim. I haven't wanted to set up a jaber connection because I'd reather use a client that is nativ to that particular messaging protocol. So, one thing to remember on the Mac for many things there are some good work arounds.
Woof, thanks for the website. Hey, something I was wondering... Can voice over use Eloquence?
No. There's no version of Eloquence for the Mac. Is Alex not good enough for you?
I mean, he's almost human! he breathes when he pauses and everything, and unlike Eloquence, he doesn't forever sound as though he has a cold.
And he's responsive unlike most human sounding voices, and doesn't exhibit that effect like he's beating on his chest when you speed him up. In other words, best TTS voice I've ever heard.
Hmmm, here's a possibly stupid question... Who's Alex?
I guess I'm in the dark ages, still using eloquence Read. *lol!*
Alex is OS-10's new voice. Fire up a Mac running Leopard, and he starts talking.
I'm a die-hard Windows XP user and I'm impressed by Alex's voice. Eloquence doesn't even compare to it, it's not even in the same sport. I'm extremely comfortable with my Windows setup right now, so I don't think I'll be going to the Mack any time soon, but I give Apple credit for including a screenreader right with Leopard, and from what I've heard, it works a damn sight better than Microsoft suicidal Sam. The breathing thing, kinda freeky though. I don't know if I'm quite comfortable with my synthesizer making breathing noises! LOL
Thanks for all the helpful information you guys have shared! I got my Macbook yesterday and it's easier to make the switch than I thought it would be. Not that I'm proficient at it yet, but it'll come, I hope. Any tips and tricks you guys could share concerning Safari? The information is presented so differently and it's got me a little confused. Any way to make the transformation easier? Willy the Woof, what do you mean about Voiceover speaking the messages in Adium but that they cannot be read? Sorry if that's a stupid question with an obvious answer. Thanks again!
Heather, what would you like to know? I'd be glad to help in any way I can. Send me a private message, and we'll take it from there. You can navigate by headings and such in Safari, just like in Internet Explorer. Vo-Right arrow is your friend, as are Vo-command-H, and VO-Command-J. Also remember the control-option-lock command, VO-semicolon. As I said though, we'll hold your hand, and make the switch easier.
It's gotta be the interacting concept that will throw you. It does everyone. Think of the items on your screen as objects. VoiceOver looks at them this way. let's take a webpage. When you go to safari you will use the vokeys which are ctrl-option they will be the second and third keys counting from the left of your macbook. the first one is function)unless they have drasticly changed the layoue from the older machines) So, you have from the left: function, ctrl, option and command. holding control and option and moving the right arrow will move you accress the screen and you wil se a variety of objects such as tool bars and other things. you will move to something that says "html content" This is your webpage. Now, of course you want to get a better look at the page so you have to interact with the object by pressing ctrl-option-shift-downarrow and you will here Interacting with content and then using ctrl-option-right arrow will move you through the information on the webpage. I wrote a document on using the Mac with voiceover which I used for a handout for a workshop conducted at the apple office in NYC. I'd be glad to send it to you if you like. You're gona love this thing....
Great explanation, John!
Heather, regarding adium: What happens is you get a list of your contacts but only the status is displayed. command-i is the command to get information on an item and when this command is used it will give you information on the contact you are highlighting. it's right now the only way to know who you are clicking on before you clik on them. when you are chatting the area that displays the message is seen by voiceover as a scroll area and cannot be interacted with. so the incoming messages are not readable by voiceover. they are aware of this problem and hopefully will correct it in the next update. This is why having adium speak the message is so helpfull. it can still be used but if you miss what it said you will need to ask the person to repeat the message.
Thank you both for the explanations. I really appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge with a n00b!:-) Do you prefer to navigate by dom or by groups? I can move around webpages but is there any way to skip over information (like page down in JFW)? It just takes forever to get anywhere! Too bad about Adium. That's what I figured you meant. Hopefully it gets fixed soon! Yay Mac! It's a learning curve but I love mine so far!
I prefer group navigation because I get more information in one place. the one chalange with group navigation is when you read the group if there is a link or edit field in the group it doesn't tell you. to find that you will need to interact with the group. I Pay my bills using the mac and have to do this. once you get used to the page it's not a problem. As far as quickly moving through a page there are some tools that will help. The item chooser is a great one for finding things. if you know what you are looking for you can press vokeys-i vokeys being control-optoin and start typing the words and the list of items will shrink untill only those choises are available to you. There are also a wide variety of element navigation commands. if you go to voiceover help by pressing vokeys-questionmark you can brows help and find what's new in voiceover . If you configure your settings in safari option-tab will move you through controls and tab will move you through links. go to safari preferences by pressing command-comma when in safari. Press vokeys-home to go to the toolbar. Interact with the toolbar by pressing vokeys-shift-downarrow.Hold vokeys and press right arrow until you hear advanced and then while hoolding the vokeys press the spacebar to click advanced. While holding the vokeys press the right arrow until you get to the check box that says press tab to highlight each item on a webpage and while holding the vokeys press spacebar to check it. Press command-w to close the window. Keep those questions coming.
Thanks for the awesome info! That's super helpful. I'm really starting to get the hang of it and using my PC a whole lot less. One more question... sorry! Is there anything equivalent to insert on the Mac so one can move by word instead of character (I.E if I wanted to edit a word in this post)? Thanks!
If you use option-left or right arrow in an edit field, that works. It's how I do it. I use regular comands in edit fields, voiceover commands everywhere else.
There is a little trick to editing on a mac which took me a while to get the hang of. Jesse, I would be interested in your experience and comments. This is the way I have taught it and it seems to work. Unlike windows where you are always in an insert mode on the mac you can be on either side of the word. Let's see if I can get this right: take the sentence, My dog is black. you want to change the sentence to my dog is a black lab. Let's assume the sentence is on a line of it's own. press command-left arrow to move to the beginning of the line hold option and press the right arow to move word by word. you hear my dog is black. now, when you hear the word black keep holding the option key and move to the left with the left arrow. you will once again hear the word black. this is because you are jumping from one sie of the word to the other. so when editing you need to be sure which side of the word you are on. I have made some horrible mistakes not paying attension to this. Usually, if you are moving forward through the line as you hear the words you will be on the right side or I guess it would be in front of the word meaning that if you typped something it would appear after the word you heard. To insert you would press option left arow and then you would hear the word again but be behind it and what you type would be before it. This is confusing and if anyone can explain this better I would certainly appreciate that.
It makes perfect sense to me, and you definitely cleared up something I had wondered about for a while. Basically, your cursor is before, or after a letter or word, but not right on it. Seems simple enough to me, and actually it works kinda like the old Apple II days.
Bringing back this topic just to say that I've switched over to Mac and am pretty much in love. I've been using my Macbook exclusively since Christmas Eve with very little trouble (and this topic just made me have a "duh" moment concerning a few commands, haha). Thanks to Jesse and John for all the great info.:)
Congratulations, Amanda! You joined the dark side. You know groups like the AFB shun us, don't you?
Amanda, would you please share what kinds of things you are doing with the Mac? Always like to ask people this because I get more and more questions about this. Thanks and enjoy that Macbook. I almost bought one but just couldn't let go of my older powerbook g4 and bought the desktop imac. I'ave used the macbook and am amazed at how fast it is. very powerful machine.
hello to all i am also a mac user using leopard with voice over and i love it now adim has come out with a beta of 1.2 and it looks to be more accessible it not only reads all contacts but also will read incoming and out going messages as well. if you want to contact me my msn is hernandez_jessie@hotmail.com or aol jactac1111.
Wow! I'll have to give the beta a ry.
yes if you need any help don't be afraid to ask.
Alright Jac, this is your conscience speaking. Don't keep it to yourself. Share with the rest of the class won't you? Where can we get this thing? it's okay to post the website. you'll make many mac users very happy. REally! thatnks for sharing this info. I have written to them and was very pleased with there responsiveness and this is proofe. I am gathering I can find this on there website but If I don't I hope you will post a link for all. Again, thanks so much for the post.
Okay! here it is.
http://beta.adiumx.com/
I am downloading as we speak and if they have really corected some of the problems it's going to be an excellent client. Jack thanks again.
Good evening all. just downloaded the Adium beta and found that now the contact list is definately readable. However, incoming messages are not. the area that is supposed to show the incoming message is a scroll area that can't be interacted with. I encourage all who are using this beta to send feedback to the ddevelopers regarding this and asking that they not release this version until the problem is corrected. they are quite responsive and I am sure will correct this.
You can set the prefs to speak the incoming messages using the system voice though, which is a kind of workaround. It definitely would be nice if we could access the message history though.
Got thworking and it's great but really need to review the message when I miss the speech. I think will fix this and did write them about it.
Hi, sorry I'm responding so late to your question, John. I've not been on the zone much lately. Anyway. I'm using the Mac for wordprocessing, email, web-browsing, messaging, pretty much all your basic computing needs. I'm a student, and plan on doing all my research and paper-writing on the Mac. The only thing I don't think I'll be able to do is OCR-type stuff. Kurzweil 3000 works on the Mac, but not Kurzweil 1000. Does anyone know of any solutions? I'd love to give Windows the complete boot.:)
Now that I've read all the posts here, I think I understand things alot better. I too am looking to buy a new laptop and am considering a mac. Btw, what is the Macmini? Is it a laptop? I'm looking for an ultraportable (a laptopthat's rreally tiny). I'm also interested in this bootcamp thing, so I can use Windows XP if I need to. Isn't there another program that does this as well? One of my main concerns is can Voiceover handle Greek? I know it doesn't come with a Greek synth, but can I install Loquendo, Realspeak or, if I'm lucky enough to find it, an external one from Dolphin? I'd love to be able to use Alexandros from Realspeak. *smile* But first, I have to get it! Anyway, I'm going to an Apple store this Saturday to check out the laptops, but the description of how to navigate a webpage sounds very difficult. I'm actually used to Hal and WebbIE, though I've used JFW and Internet Explorer as well, and sometimes have to revert back to those. In Webbie, the keys I use the most are ctrl-downarrow to skip past links, up and down arrows to read links, and I tab to the address bar and do a ctrl-a and ctrl-c to copy the url to the clipboard. Can I do that with a Mac as easily? What about copying and pasting text in general? Is there something like select all or can I do the equivalent of shift-downarrow and ctrl-c to select straight down a document? Btw, the explanations of editing in general were wonderful. Also, I want to use my laptop ffor wordprocessing, webmail, internet etc, but also for listening to my mp3s. But I hear Itunes is inaccessible? Is this still true and if so, is this the only program that Mac uses for listening to mp3s? Do any of you use Livejournal? If so, can I still use a client like Simagic? I'm in the process of putting everything on
http://www.divshare.com
so I could download it later and also so I can put it back on my HP Pavilian after I reformat. Can I download zip files with a Mac? Do the laptops have built-in keyboards? I don't want to have to use an external. What about pcmcia card slots? If so, can I use a regular compact flash card to transfer things or no, because it's formatted for windows? Thanks and sorry for all the questions.
I was just recommended this link on Livejournal and figured I should pass it onto you guys.
http://www.lioncourt.com/
I haven't started reading it yet, but from a quick glance, it seems to answer alot of questions.
They have it!
http://www.lioncourt.com/2007/12/04/what-an-ultra-portable-might-mean-for-visually-impaired-users/
So, is this the same thing that you guys were talking about? Will it meet my needs? I'm off to the Apple site to find out! I really need to do something else today other than looking at Mac stuff... lol
A Mac Mini is a small desktop, looks like an external hard drive,its a smallish square, with no monitor, that has to be bought separately.
A Macbook or Macbook Pro comes with its own internal keyboard, yes, voiceover does work with it, but some of the keyboard commands are different.
I personally will be getting an IMac, 20 inch screen, 2.0 ghz processer, probably 4 gb ram, if it can handle it.
As for the zip files thing, I know that 7zip is available for windows, and I know its open source,I believe its also available for the mac, if its not, you are gonna end up having to get or buy Stuffit Expander, unsure how accessible it is with voiceover.
Hope this answered most of your questions.
As far as I know, there is not a Greek voice yet for the Mac. I'm sure Cepstral, or IVox could probably be of more service to you in this area, but since Loquendo and Scansoft make only Windows engines, and Linux, using them on the Mac is out.
There is no ultra-portable notebook solution as of yet, but we've all got our fingers crossed for next Tuesday's keynote at MacWorld by Steve Jobs. Perhaps he will shed some more light on that subject.
Hmm, so all the laptops are regular sized and I can't use Greek unless I run Windows... Grrr. The whole point of this was to get an ultraportable. *sigh* If I were to get a regular laptop, I'd be right where I started and there's nothing wrong with my HP. I just wanted something I could take with me when I go places and that's easier to carry around. Now I'm wondering if I should cancel that appointment with Apple. And I was really looking forward to this too! Btw, what about ESpeak? It does run on Linux and Windows...
Weeeeell, my Macbook is *much* more portable than my HP Pavillion laptop. It tops out at 5 pounds and is quite thin (maybe an inch and a half? probably less). As far as notebook computers go, I don't think they get much smaller than the Macbook, or at least i've never seen one any smaller/sleeker.
Maybe not in Mac, but there are ones that are only a little larger than a braille note, with tiny keys on them. They usually have a docking station for the periferals like cd rom, various ports etc. Btw, my Pavilian model is ze5385us if that helps.
I'm with Amanda here. I love my Macbook's form factor.
True, there are smaller computers running Windows, but the processors aren't as good, you have to have your docking station to use the cd drive, or any of the connections other than wireless, maybe limited USB and bluetooth, and the hard drives are skimpy. HP's are all quite a bit bigger, and not near as sleak.
Boot Camp is your very best option when it comes o running Windows on a Mac, and it works beautifully.
As far as OCR software, Amanda, there is a program called Read Iris which is supposed to work very well, and of course, Omni Page works, too.
I can't really think of any connections besides wireless and my pcmcia card slot that I normally use, and I'm not one for cds unless I'm putting mp3s on my computer or installing software. But I definitely want to at least go to the Apple store so I can check these computers out for myself. The drives on the Windows machines made me decide to get a small external, but I didn't realise I'd have to carry the docking station around with me to use it, which would probably mean the laptop would become normal size. I like the Mac's option of an 80 gb hard drive. Right now, I"m working with a 60 and still have room, so I couldn't imagine needing too much more, though I'd never complain about an extra 20 gigs.
Right, I realize that there are models out there that are smaller, but as you said, they require docking stations, and as Jesse pointed out, they are nowhere near as robust as what you can find in a Mac. Macbooks come with hard drives with up to 120-gig capacities (my model), and Macbook Pros have even larger harddrives, but then you're talking larger displays and therefore larger overall, so, definitely not what you're looking for. I don't know, but for me at least, carrying as little as possible is the most important thing. I don't see what the point of getting a tiny laptop is if you need to carry around all sorts of peripherals to go along with it. JMO, though. Don't mean to step on any toes.
Jesse, yeah, I've heard of that OCR program. I'll need to give it a whirl at some point. The only reason I'm reluctant to leave Kurzweil completely in the dust is because of its convenient book searching feature (it searches a whole bunch of databases at once for you, which is great and saves time if you're an english major like me.:) )
Hmm. Well then, the best ting I can tell ya is to Boot Camp your Mac, and boot into Windows for Kurzweil. I do that, even though it's compromising.
See, that's the thing. I don't want to taint this machine with windows. Who me, a snob? Neeeever...:) I'll have to make a decision sooner or later, but not quite yet. I've still got a PC at school, so we'll see how things go when the semester starts up again.
See, and here I am a total windows user popping in here...
I have listened to a whole lot of podcasts and discussions about the mack and I find it interesting, but it's not something i think I could dive headllong into. The way I see it, you have to really give me a reason to not use Windows anymore, and for me, it does absolutely positively everything I need it to do, so why change just for the sake of it? If I want to tell Microsoft to go fuck themselves I can just do it, smile and use another program that performs the same task, but is not created by them.
I don't have to completely stop using their operating system for that.
I've read all these posts here and listened to the physical descriptions of the different machines and from a visual standpoint they sound like they would look very impressive. But what good's a computer that looks good if it doesn't do what i need? Now of course, Voiceover is impressive and I think it's definitely something to keep observing to see what happens next.
So nope, don't worry I'm not the typical Windows guy that says Apple is the Antichrist and stay away from them. But what I am sayiing is that if Windows keeps going the way it's going with Vista and all its issues, I may convert to a Mack but only, and I mean, only, if my Windows machine can no longer perform the tasks i need it to. From the desscriptions of navigating around the screen, it kind of reminds me of like having a camera and if you see something you like, you zoom in on it and use the program you need to use and then go onto the next thing. and maybe it's just me but the audio demos I've heard were nicely done, but maybe, and again it's just me and maybe it was the individduals who were doing the demo, but it sounds like you have to jump through all kinds of hoops to do something, when with the same type of program, I can quite literally, hit a hotkey, and then hit another key and i'm doing that very thing. I'm not fishing around the screen looking for a control to interact with it, do what I need to do and then zoom out, or stop interacting with it. It's not that I disagree with it even, it's just a different way of doing things. I will say this much. When people do convert to the Mack, they seem to all really love it and never go back to Windows. That seems rather strange to me, but again, this machine does what I need it to do and it does it well. So until that time,sorry mack enthusiasts, i'm sticking where I am. If Microsoft keeps their shit up I may be joining you though! I'm just sayin!
Tif, I need to correct one misunderstanding. No docking station is required for an external hard drive, you can get 120gb 2.5 inch ones (fit easily in a pocket) for around $100 to $120, possibly less, that connect via USB. Docking station is something you need when you are playing dvds or writing to cds/dvds etc. I personally don't see why this matters much, I hardly ever write CDs (why bother, use and Ipod or whatever mp3 player to listen to music/audio books etc, download your programs, carry a memory stick on your key chain, install programs from the net, why use an optical drive, you hardly ever need it, at least not often enough to always have to carry it around).
I still think the Asus EEE might be the way to go, especially if they come with 8gb versions (think they already have), they can run Windows XP, or so they claim, and come with a $700 to $800 ish price tag, Macs start in the high 900s, unless I am quite mistaken.
Smallest Mac is 13.3 inches, there's loads of 12 inch Windows PCs out there, many with 120gb drives, so size is not a factor. I am not saying Macs aren't good, I want to look into them one day, heck, my wife and Willy the Woof are constantly vying for Macs *grin* but my reservations are that programmes are fewer, more expensive and I'm not convinced about VoiceOver, machines are more expensive too and, from a hardware standpoint, don't offer anything over Windows machines, same processors, same hardware. I'd be kind of psyched to see a good, flash based 12 inch mac and dual booting it might be really cool, if I have the money.
Also I don't understand why people need 120gb drives on their laptops, unless it's their only computer of course, external drives are cheap and easy to carry, memory sticks etc. For your Word/Excel/note taking purposes you really only need a gig or 2, add another 2 to 3 gigs for some entertainment stuff, I think an 8gb drive would do the trick, although it's a bare minimum.
Those EEE machines are 7 to 10 inch and 2 pounds.
I'd be curious if someone buys it and tries out the XP installation. I might do it myself but not during the current cash crisis of course.
Cheers
-B
Amanda,
You really wouldn't be tainting your machine by putting Windows on it. The two operating systems are kept very much separate. In fact, the Windows volue can't even access the Leopard volume, which is a very beautiful thing. It would be neat though if Boot Camp would let you install Windows to an external drive, kinda like OS-10 lets you do, but ya know Microsoft...Nothing's convenient with them.
Well, even if it was a desktop, I'd never need 120 gb. lol I do know that I have a few gigs of music, though I can't imagine it being more than 5 and my documents aren't that much. I guess that would leave me with a little bit more for programs, though it might be a tight squeeze. Still, it's doable. Thanks for clearing that up about the external drive. I thought I needed the station cause that's where the ports were held. As for the Asus E, I've had so many people recommend it that I absolutely have to see it and decide for myself. I didn't realise the Macs were so expensive. For a laptop, $900 ish doesn't sound too bad, but another friend told me they were about $2,000! Is that true? There's no way I could get that. Oh, and I got to hear the new voice Alex. Wow! If I had a Greek synth that did that I'd fall off my chair!
The Macbook Pro is $2000, but the regular Macbook, which is the smaller one starts at $1099. Since small is what you want, the Macbook's the one for you.
and for half that, or maybe a little more you can get a perfectly good laptop that runs XP or maybe Vista that performs the exact same tasks. I ain't exactly got $2000 lying around. I can't just walk out to the money tree and grab a couple grand and buy a mackbook pro.
I wasn't going to reply to that, but there's definitely a misunderstanding here. Price any Dell, Gateway, Toshiba, HP or any other company's laptops out. Put the exact feature set in them as the Macbook, and the Macbook will come out cheaper. People fail to realize that Apple doesn't offer a zillion different computers at a zillion different price points. They offer only six laptops at six different price points. Of course, you could customize any of them, and pay a little more for other features. but unlike the other companies, they discontinue last year's, or last month's model when the new ones come out at the same prices. That, in my opinion, takes much of the guess work out of buying a laptop. Besides, Apple makes a more asthetically pleasing computer than anyone else in its class. Besides all that, where else are you gonna get the Magsafe power adaptor, and a real six-pin firewire port on a laptop?
MacBook is 13.3 inches, the $1099 has an 80gb hard drive, to get 120gb hard drive you need to go up to $1299. The Intel Core Duo processor is good, 1gb of ram is fine, but the desire for a 6 pin firewire port hasn't exactly kept me up at night and my Compaq v3019US is also very esthatically pleasing and costs around $650 with same specs (except AMD processor, which has performed fantastically).
I have a NewEgg email with an Acer laptop, 2gb 120gb drive dual core AMD processor, Vista for $599, 4 ofmy friends have owned Acer laptops for years and never had issues, they swear by them. The downside though is this one is 14.1 inch, so a bit larger and battery life is not as good, around 3 hours.
But HP has nice 12 inch laptops in the $800 range with same basic features, also you can get Open Office and such, which I believe you cannot get for a Mac.
Basically if you want a small computer to do your every day things I don't see the point in buying a Mac, if you want to stand out, want a fashion accessory or have a particular need for a 6 pin firewire port, (I guess I'm weird bin that I don't need one) Mac may be something for you. I like the fact VoiceOver is built in and they're doing a lot of work to make it a rival to other screen readers, but I still fail to be compelled to pay twice the price I need for a laptop for school etc. Also I'm not sure how much better the hardware is after they switched to Intel, seems like it's gone downhill a bit and now doesn't offer anything beyond what a PC has to offer,hardware wise.
It's all about what you want really.
You're also not taking into consideration the built-in bluetooth, included remote control, built-in iSight camera and microphone, and the form factor. Also the fact that you do get a built-in screen reader, which, for somebody who doesn't own a screen reader is the real deal breaker!
I've never really seen any need for built-in bluetooth, included remote control, built-in iSight camera and microphone, or a firewire port. Now, the fact that voiceover comes with it, I will give ya that, that is rather impressive. and from what i've heard it seems to handle lots of things pretty well. Really, I think this all comes down to what *you* want in your system. That's why they call it a *personal* computer.
That is correct. However, that was not my point at all. My point was to compare any system with the exact same specs, and that system will come out to be, more often than not, more expensive than the Mac. For what you get in the system, the Mac really is on par, if not undercutting its competitors.
Built in screen reader is a nice feature. Ms made a conscious decission not to develop theirs because they are worried about negative feed back from the screen reader manufacturers (lots of discussion about this when I interned for them) so it's not necessarily lack of care on Ms behalf, more that they feel they're not technically equiped to develop a good screen reader and it'd create a lot of negativity.
I'm not convinced that Macs are cheaper than compariable PCs but I will certainly yield the point they are not significantly more expensive perhaps. The Sony Vaios, for instance, 11 inch computers, basically same specs as a Mac, are weighing in close to 2 grand, awesome computers I'm sure, but I wouldn't buy them. If one is looking for a cheap, reliable laptop that will do all every day tasks and such, Mac is not the way to go, in my opinion, if you want to be somewhat different, you want something stylish and showy and/or you are into more high end music or art/design stuff, Mac has big advantages or had, Sonar is coming up very very strong now so Pro Tools is falling more and more out of favor, but Macs are still good in video and music production stuff. I still definitely want to try one out one day.
I went to an apple store here in New York City and I was really impress with the macbook and can't wait to change to the mac. From readint this posts it seems that the change from windows to lepard is really worth while doing. So yeah
well adium is out and i am afraid to say that the message thing hasn't been fixed. but they told me they will try to see how they can fix it.
Well, at least even in it's current state, it's quie useable, provided you can do without message history. Lol
I saw a Macbook today! Same size as my HP Pavilian, but without the floppy drive, parallel port and pcmcia card slot. Still, it's alot lighter, great voice, the screenreader tells you what to do, I can install XP on it without any problems for those times when I'll need it like my Greek stuff, since I still can't find a compatible synth to use with VoiceOver. Plus, I like the adapter and the battery life. Mom's partner said she'd get it for me if I really wanted it and was gonna use it. I think I'll take her up on the offer. *smile* I went to Best Buy as well, to see those ultraportables and they didn't have them in the store. But the guy told me they all come with Vista and it's hard to put XP on them because you have to get the drivers etc for the machine. Plus, I'd need to carry a hard drive with me. Here, though the Macbook is bigger, it already has everything installed and internal. So what I lose in size I make up for in accessibility and availability. So yeah, Mac it is!
Go girl! Welcome to the family! You have me on MSN so if you need help, feel free to hit me up.
And now you understand why ultraportables as small as you were originally thinking are not the best idea. Good stuff!
Just wanted to let everyone know that they fixed the message history in Adium and it is now in an html table so all you need to do is interact with it. It was just a test build that I tried but the beta should be out by the end of the week. I couldn't get the preferences to read but it could be just me. Anyone else have this problem with older versions of Adium?
Glad to see this topic is still alive and that people are switching or thinking of switching to the Mac! I seriously don't think you'll regret it!
Cool! Thanks for the info, Heather! I'll grab the new Adium beta today!
save up your cash, Mack lovers. a cool $1179.99 will get you an Apple Mack air. Personally I wouldn't ever spend that much on a computer, nore do I have the cash lying around to do so. but I can understand the attraction though. Buy one before Apple comes out with a Mack so small that you have to keep it on a lanyard around your neck like the iPod LOL.
Wow!!!!! so this is what I miss when not being here for a while. Hmmm, did I hear something about sir brue's wife wanting a mac? Wow! really! incredible!!!!! Amanda, would you please share what kind of word processing you are doing and what app you are using? I would assume text edit but hate to make assumsions. are you doing anything with tables or more basic writingLet's see, what can I add to all of this? Heather, I am jealous you got to check out that beta. it wasn't wround long but yes it should be available to all at the end of this week. Windows on the mac: I just did the bootcamp thing and it's amazing! windows runs so much better on the mac. Amanda, don't worry at all. As Jesse pointed out windows is on a seperate partition. I do use read iris but it is slow and for some reason needs to take a pass before scanning a page and I don't know why. this is like taking two passes for each page. haven't tried omnipage yet so can't address that. As far as which is more expensive I would just say figure out what you want to do with the comptuer andn then look at the voiceover tutorials avaiable from the apple site. Also go to www.icanworkthisthing.com and you wil find some very usefull documentation that might help. Remember, apple loves people playing in there stores so go try one as long as you need to. By the way, did get window-eyes and system access running on the windows side of the mac. ran system access from the flash drive and it worked well. the only problem I had was durring the install of windows. When you get to the point where it asks press enter to begin the keyboard and mouse were frozen. the fix is when doing the instalation of windows disconnect the mouse. this is documented and can be searched by using google or calling apple tech support. once windows is running you can reconnect the mouse. Also, setting up which starts by default is easy and I have the mac starting by default and if I want windows I hold option for about 30 seconds and pres right arrow one time and enter and this boots windows. this can also be done from the startup item in system preferences or from the bootcamp item in the systray but I prefer this method since it garentees the mac os will start first. wow, glad to see so much interest. Guess I will have to check in more often.
What's this about a Mack air? Is this another machine or a sarcastic remark (no offence meant)? I thought Mac didn't have an ultraportable! Help! We're ordering the Macbook on Friday or Saturday, so if there's something smaller out there, let me know and tell me the specs if you could please. I love the Macbook, just wanna know. Btw, really. What's the difference between the Pro and regular, other than the memory and a few extra ports? Joanie's set on getting me the pro, but I don't see why she should have to spend the extra $300 or so if there's no need. But if it'll be beneficial in the longrun, I'll let it be. Also, I will definitely be running bootcamp on the machine and a few Windows programs if that helps. Thanks not just for this, but for your extreme patience in answering me. You guys are the best!
Nope, this was absolutely no joke, or a sarcastic remark, it's the real deal.
http://www.apple.com/macbookair/
It's very spendy though. You just need to make an informed decision about what you want and if this sounds good for you and if you can afford it, go for the ultraportable if it serves your needs. I personally couldn't see spendind *that* amount on an ultraportable but maybe I'm just cheep? LOL! I do have to say it looks very, very impressive!
Good morning all. The beta of Adium is available and it can be found at www.beta.adiumx.com and yes! message history does work and the scroll area is now called html content and interacting with it will allow you to read the incoming message. Let's all try this thing and render our thanks to these folks!
It is definitely no more spendy than any other ultraportable specked at that price level. Yeah, Chris, I think you're just a lil cheap. Lol. I realize there are those $399 ultra portables, but they don't offer much storage, you have to buy a copy of WinXP if you don't already have it, etc. When compared with the price of the PacMate without the display, or the VoiceNote, it's hardly a lot, and the Mac comes with Voiceover, and far more computing power out of the box.
Hey all, well thinking of switching over to a mac as well here, and thinking of getting an Imac. We don't have apple stores in this part of Canada where I am, but one of the computer stores does have macs. Aparrently the Imac that i'm looking at, will come with OS10.4 tiger on it, rather than Leopard. Why this is, I don't know. So for any of you mac users out there, , would you leave tiger on there for a while, or just go ahead and install leopard right away? Haven't gotten the machine as of yet, but hopefully soon.
I wouldn't get the machine without them installing Leopard on it, honestly.
Agreed, leopard has some important voiceover enhansments and it's been out long enough now where no mac should come without it. I would encourage your vendor to install leopard before you buy the machine.
aah, mr Woof. My wife's always had a Mac *grin* was very happy with her first, bought a MacBook right after the Intel switch and she's not very impressed with this one. She's had two powerpack related issues in just over a year and somehow just doesn't jive as well with this computer. As for Ultra Portable, I don't really see why people would want ultra portable and also the power of a desk or laptop, I think they're different things, for one thing a 120gb pocket drive is $100 ish, I think the EEE is perfect for taking notes in class, running Office, check email, calendar etc, I don't need my ultra portable to be able to record 30 tracks simultaneously whilst watching a movie and download 40 torrents, reserve that for a lapto or desktop. The MacBook Air is cool, at first I thought the price was outrageous but I merely think it's a tiny bit high after comparing specs to PC ones, believe it's $1799 though, not $1199.
Questions:
1. Why does Windows run better on a Mac? Thought it was exactly same processor, same memory etc, so why would same hardware running Windows be different just because it runs Boot Camp, if ture, well, it's kinda neat.
2. Willy, can you get Jaws running on said Windows system as well (I presume so, but then again, one should never assume anything in the software world).
3. (in two parts).
a. Does Mac have any sort of Open Office package?
b. How does VoiceOver work with Office for Macs.
Can you, enter a cell's comment, edit a formula, merge/unmerge cells and write vba code for Exel (alt-f11 and work with the edit window)?
I realize it's a bit comprehensive, but for me to seriously consider testing a Mac, full access to Excel is paramount through VoiceOver.
Also, whilst the new Mac is super thin, it's notparticularly small, it's 13.3 inches, you can get 11 inch laptops from Sony for instance, the Oco UMPCs are 5 inch screen (VoiceSense from GW Micro runs on them) and the EEE is 7 inch, I'm not sure where they draw the line between laptop and UMPC, or if there is a definition at all.
Wow! let's see: first: glad to hear your wife enjoys macs although sorry this one isn't treating her as well as the others. might have to have a talk with that one. Now, why windows runs better on the mac is beyond me and I have absolutely no reasonable answer for you. it just seem to not be as bogged down as on a pc. Jaws? Well I think Jesse is running Jaws so he can speak to that point. I would imagine it works fine but you are right it's never good to assume. Office access and voiceover don't exist and this is the one thing that stands between people and the mac. Voicevoer doesn't recognize tables yet but I have no doubt it will. text edit is fairly robust and there is also something called bean which is free as well. Tables is a spreadsheet program that does work with voiceover but not bbeing an excel user I have only used it for very limited data entery so it would be something you would need to explore. I have no doubt that now that the voiceover community has grown developers will be starting to work on accessibillity and that we will have office apps just don't know when. For me it's internet, e-mail, skype, some lite recording using quicktime pro and lite document writing with text edit.
Same here. I never used Word or anything like that. My wordprocessing files are just normal txt or rtf and I use Gmail directly from the web. However, I do use MSN Messanger and my Livejournal client alot, so will have to get used to the Mac versions of these. As for the new Macbook Air, I'm not sure if it's worth all that money. It's smaller, of course, but I just don't know. Plus, I'm not sure if Joanie's willing to shell out that much if there's no real benefit of this one over the regular Macbook. But I'm sure I'll be happy.
They have a Livejournal client for the Mac...Don't know what it is though. Since you don't use Word, Text Edit will replace Notepad or wordpad on the Mac.
How about using JAWS and/or Window-eyes in windows on the mac? i'd be interested to know how it runs too.
Yay! That should make my life easier. I'm always using LJ so would hate to have to update from the webpage. As far as Windows, from what everyone's been saying, it runs very smoothly, so I'm guessing the same would go for a screenreader, regardless of which one it is. And they got my Macbook! It's just not here yet, Mom's bringing it tomorow. I will! get some sleep tonight. Tomorrow I'll be the kid in the candy shop. *smile* Btw, for those of you going nuts trying to figure out how to save your favourites, you could put them all on
http://www.wannastart.com
From there, you could access them from any computer. Some of the site is in a foreign language, but it's pretty easy to figure out. Basically, you could make your own start page, even categorise your links, and even include rss feeds so you could read them right off the webpage.
Jaws and Window Eyes work just fine in Windows with Boot Camp. When you run Boot Camp, you are running a real Windows machine, not a virtualization. Anything that works in Windows on a generic laptop will work with the Mac, just faster and better, because Apple uses better motherboards than your average $700 pc laptop.
I got my Mac today. It's the regular Macbook not the pro. After speaking with the people at the store, my parents decided that this would be the most beneficial for me, since the Pro had mostly visual things. Same with the Air. Mom actually told me to look it up this morning before we opened the box cause they were willing to get it for me if it was better, but again, mostly visual. The only difference was the thinness and maybe the battery life. I don't get the whole thinner thing. I mean, if I want an ultraportable, I want it to be smaller all around! Anyway,my new Macbook is charging and I can't wait to use it!
i agree adium is really good now except some times i use ichat to screen share. do you guys know of any accessible way to control another mac through the net?
A problem with MacBook Air is that it only has one usb port, of course it could be solved by carrying a usb hub around, but it kind of defeats the purpose of a laptop to start having to bring tons of things around with it.
How is braille support (if any) in VoiceOver?
I have a deafblind frind using a Mac, and she likes the braille support. Leopard supports a number of displays from Alva, Humanware, Freedom Scientific and a few other companies. It's apparently very "plug-and-play". I haven't tried it myself as I don't have a USB braille display and can never get the bluetooth on my braille note to cooperate.